可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#590954講者:Speaker: Oeds WesterhofWell, not that much. I mean for the Netherlands, yes. But if you go to Germany and you look at how a city is governed there, it's quite similar to what you describe. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2023-09-29 Conversation with Louwrien Wijers et al