可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#447165講者:Speaker: Georg DiezIt is a conception of the state as something that is an experiment or that is being constantly reassessed or worked on and redesigned, in a way. Is that how you see it? 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2020-12-09 Conversation with Georg Diez