可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#387657講者:Speaker: Yi-Chin ChangWe think there’s a barrier between, I don’t know how to say it, but maybe the designer and manufacturers, and also the whole system. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2020-02-19 Conversation with Michael Braungart