可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#377913講者:Speaker: Jan VollmerDoes a country need a crisis to implement a system like this, or would that also, in your opinion, work without a defining crisis first? 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2019-11-06 Interview with Jan Vollmer