可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#253457講者:Speaker: Stefan HeumannI would imagine that you don’t sit within a single ministry, so you’re also sometimes seen...I don’t know if you’re perceived as an outsider. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2019-01-04 Conversation with Stefan Heumann