可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#253448講者:Speaker: Stefan HeumannWe have found some people who think it’s important to have an independent organization doing this. Sometimes, we collaborate with government, and government will support some of our work. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2019-01-04 Conversation with Stefan Heumann