可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#236579講者:Speaker: Frederic LalouxActually, our hierarchical systems are hugely complex. In many ways, they’re not very natural, so we spend enormous amounts of time navigating. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2018-10-31 Conversation with Frederic Laloux