可引用的發言段落Citable transcript turn#211421講者:Speaker: William CharltonThat’s not helpful. To my mind, we need to find some way to break that them and us, so that it’s just us, and it’s not them and us. 逐字稿導覽Transcript navigation查看前後文View context分享此段Share turn來源逐字稿Source record2018-09-04 Conversation with William Charlton