Of course, I know the examples from your talks. What would you say is your biggest?
Does it go along party lines?
I mean, not from your side, I know. The people who accept it, are they...?
Also the KMT?
In a way, you are also part of the legacy of the Sunflower Movement, right?
I would say one of the most prominent maybe. I was also there. I was in the parliament for two days, amazing, really.
Really fun, and the feeling of history in the making somehow. Like in Hong Kong a couple of months later. Of course, a lot of the passion is gone now, because you cannot sustain it for a long time, probably.
Would you say that the young people, the young generation, that they have a feeling of accomplishment now? I’m asking because I’m just coming from Hong Kong. I was in Hong Kong two weeks ago.
In Hong Kong, there is a lot of disappointment, and a lot of frustration and resignation.
Maybe I will ask her later after we finish this.
Yes, and Freddy Lim. He is older than you and he still counts as a representative of the young.
Do you also see that in the reactions you get to yourself as a person, as a transgender woman?
Has it changed?
That is a big change. Taiwan society as a whole sometimes can be quite conservative in their values.
What do you expect off the referendum, the same-sex marriage referendum?
It will only about the wording then in the end?
Why did it take parliament so long after...You’re not a parliamentarian, so you’re not the one...
As an observer, why?
Because the constitutional court decision was already one and a half years ago. Why hasn’t there been concrete steps right afterwards?
They were chickening out, basically. They were...
You’ve also been to Europe and you’ve visited some of the states. I come from Germany. For me, this is very innovative. We are economically very strong but in this front, we are very weak in the digital, and especially with government.
You visited Estonia and the Scandinavian countries, who are much further than we are. If you compare Taiwan, where do you stand there? Are you on the forefront globally?
The social credit system, for example, right?
Let me rephrase the question and go back to the beginning. On the front of reinventing democracy digitally, are you on the forefront?
When you compared yourself, for example, to Estonia, which is always the model state in Europe, what are the differences there?
Of course. You do want to export. You do want to be able to role model, right?
Warm power.
I’ve heard it for the first time. I’ve heard of soft and sharp power, but never warm power. What does that mean?
Ahh.
Have you had already a lot of interest?
From where?
Who are the Digital 7?
It sounds great. I know my time is nearly finished.
My last question. It’s great listening to you because you are so optimistic [laughs] and so energetic. I’m sure you’ve also had some challenges or frustrations.
Goethe would be in there.
That’s very good even though, I guess, there’s this one famous work by Oswald Spengler. It’s "Der Untergang des Abendlandes." What’s that? The decline of the...
...of the Occident.
Exactly. There was some pessimism. [laughs]
No, you’re right. Thank you so much.
It’s been a pleasure, really wonderful.
Can I maybe take one picture of you or...?
Where do you usually take your pictures? Here in your office?
No, outside. Outside is better.
