It is. Am going to record the next TaiwanPlus episode with Kevin, the co-founder of Twitch, Kevin Lin.
Cheers then. Live long and prosper.
Ciao.
All right, let's get started.
That's fine.
I understand the motivation and where you're coming from, basically. Where you're at now?
Tell me about it. [laughs]
Yup.
They're sharing their playbooks, basically?
Surely, how some countries use cyberspace to defend their territory very successfully as well? [laughs]
I'd say you're actually talking about democratic resilience.
That is to say, the threats are going to come from both inside and outside, and if we can design the systems, meaning the political systems and all the systems related to that right, then the system becomes resilient or even anti-fragile.
Your core argument is that if we do nothing, the status quo -- the business as usual -- isn't like that.
For a while now, but yeah.
Let me give you some "moda" stickers.
Just a second.
"Digital" and "Plural" is the same word here, 數位.
I know -- "Taiwan Moda" sounds stylish.
I just returned from Bellagio. It also means that in Italy, like fashionable.
The States, too.
Yeah, and also, devolution.
And the data regulations are different state by state.
There's no equivalent of the EU Data Acts.
They speak different languages, like literally.
And the word "crypto" means two different things. [laughs]
For the digital economy folks, it means just digital signatures.
Jason surely knows about this...
Just the signature part, not the encryption part. Bitcoin never encrypts anything. [laughs]
I have discussed at length, both with Toomas and with Luukas.
There's a single architect, basically?
Yes, of course. [laughs]
No difficulties at all.
It's "moda". Fashionable.
I usually show them Diia, the Ukrainian app, which has been turned into a crowdsourcing, or crowd intelligence, for lack of better term, and it also serves the displaced persons internally, externally, like aid, vouchers, and so on.
It's evident that it's the same infrastructure. The cyber for e-government and the cyber for defense is exactly the same infrastructure, and Diia is a living proof.
I think many different scholars are paying attention to the Ukrainian example, which is this living example that the case you just made, which is the previously disjoined departments of cybersecurity, of counter-disinformation and countering information manipulation, and of e-government infrastructure in general, as evidenced by Diia.
If they don't get divided, they don't get conquered. [laughs] That is, I think, a little...
D-I-I-A is the Ukrainian...
It's an app.
It provides digital signatures, here you can blink or smile to sign an electronic document.
You can do e-participation too. There is a very much a portal like our Join.gov.tw. The Ukrainians also do transparent procurements, public access and analysis, and so on.
The app is in the form factor of a mobile wallet that can hold your driver's license and all sorts of different licenses. This is something Jason tried to advocate for, in his draft of digital economy basic act. Right?
It is to make something like that possible.
The Ukrainian example shows that it is actually useful in war in countering disinformation in broadcasting Eurovision to people to boost their morale. I'd say it's an all-in-one evidence. Whenever I want to talk to people about the importance of an interdisciplinary service studies program, I would point to something like Diia.
Yeah, I know.
They'll have to join the Ukrainian IT Army, and learn from the battlefield?
Might as well fight a war instead?
To get that experience, yeah?
It's very transparent. We have already written about our overarching goals. There are three of them:
建構數位服務跨域協力典範，增進政府效能與韌性運作； 完備數據公益生態制度及應用，拓展個人資料自主運用範疇； 促進跨國公民科技與資料民主化的共同發展，落實智慧國家願景。
