
Well, I mean, when you're composting -- when a new infrastructure is growing, reusing the components of the old -- at some point, the old becomes obsolete and probably crumbles. So collapse is maybe the right word if you're focusing on the old institutions and the old system. But that's fine. Because we already have then the spaces of resilience within collapse -- islands of sanity, pockets of good. So that's exactly what we're building.